Gabriel's Story
Gabriel Interview Transcription
Interview Conducted in Fall 2009
You know I born in Southern Sudan uh in the city called Duba which is a city of southern Sudan where uh I born there and we have a culture in southern Sudan, that uh every boy after 5 years have to be take to the to the village and show to be show
If you be born in the city you have to be taken to the village and try to train you some culture things and uh my father was in the army, you know, he was joining the army in may 1983 and so when he was in the army we stay where we stay in the city I have 2 sisters the elder one and the younger one
So I born in Duba and in about 5 years later I was tooken to the village called Mar that where we have almost 600, 600-700 people uh family together know each other and I was tooken there to be feed only to drink milk and all kind of these things
So I spend one year there and I uh then they took be back to the city you know
And In about 1985 they, the government of Sudan that we were fighting against, against the south Sudan, they destroy the city that I am in you know
And everyone went away, and all of my family went away. Uh my father born in a very big family, they are like 5 guys and they all were killed by the north Sudan and my father and my uncle were the two left, you know. And the they the city was attack by the government and we moved out to the back to the village that we uh we supposed to we coming from because Dubai? Is another place of the southern Sudan it is a city
So uh when we were there my father was in the army, so we were there, um with relatives, farms, you know who were taking care of us especially me as a young boy.
So uh when I was about to be 7 or 7 ½ year old, they the government army came to the village, the same village where we are called Mar and they came and they attacked the village and they came with the order that uh they are looking for the family of the people who are joining the army of the southern Sudan and uh nobody were able to tell where we are and 3 of us and my mother so uh they went back and then they in about a week they came again and they gathering everyone to you know to the under, we we have a big tree it is still alive to today, that tree
And they gathered everyone there and they asking for my family, which is my mother, and ……. My family, we called
And they ask for Makess, names, and where is his wife, but no one at the time take uh want to speak or to raise his hand up or her hand up to uh to show where we are because people know soon they will uh soon they will know about where we are they will kill us you know and
So people refused to tell the name and they go and take one of the guy and shot uh into you know his head
And I were there, that time, I seen this happening
They also ask again to show where my mother is and nobody were willing to tell where we are
So also they took another guy and shot
And they ask again and nobody want to show so they took 2 womans and there is was my woman sitting uh next to my mother and she she just feel that uh you know she just feel that people were going to be kill all because of one family and she decided to come up to to show where we are
And they shot one of the woman that they took and uh you know they took us they took us you know into the town called Mangala where we find a lot of people from that they were being tooken from the village sand uh especially children to be uh you know converted, to be forced to be uh Muslims you know and uh to use the women that they took as their uh you know their wife or something like that
So we went there and we were put in a very uh special place and they announce it, uh you know that they attack village of Mar and they they kill uh uh us they kill us and they kill many people
And they announce it and people know uh they become aware that we were already here you know
So people they doing it because uh they don’t want people to know that we are in the town, uh that they you know and we didn’t know that they announced it so they that uh that we already dead
So you know my mother was tooken to the prison, uh to her own prison
And we were put into the house of the uh the you know lieutenant commander in the army of north Sudan so we that where were uh we were uh force to you know to …especially me I was force and beat and force to you know to accept Islam and they were uh using me to uh they put their white uh uh dress uh you know and put the cover that they wear in Sudan and we were you know persecutioned and you know we uh I myself was tortured you know in order to accept as a child
but you know I found 700 children from south Sudan who are already been you know were already been uh forced uh to the Islam uh early and uh they were already you know many of them had been dead you know
and what they do usually when the children dead or the people you know uh dead they put them you know to the Nile, they drop them into the Nile and
so uh we stay there in about 8 months I didn’t see my mother, my mother didn’t see us you know
so one day my mother ask for uh for where we are because she felt that you know maybe we are not alive anymore so uh you know and she was told that we are okay and we are safe and we are uh in the in the in its called the men it was called the Youseff-Moustafa and she was informed that were are alive and next day she ask for permission to go and see us you know and the next day she was given permission to go see us
Second Ten Minutes
So she came one day she came towards the Sunday morning and she came and you know they opened the door that we you know and for me I was I didn’t die because I have, I have a strongness in my heart and I believe that those people they came you know to kill everyone from south Sudan and make it their homeland and I understand they came to kill my uncle they kill my friends they kill many people in southern Sudan.
But for me I was taking it very easily that even though if I die it does not matter. They kill leader, they kill people like that so I was having a strong heart because of that. So my mother came you know and she came and she saw me and you know she cried and I told her my mother do not cry.
For me, I have been strong it’s just because of you and she came and she hugged me and she hugged my two sisters and you know she pray and she was asking me you know to pray, it was her about the situation.
And she they took her back to the prison, and two days later they they, the town that we were in were attacked by the south Sudan rebels, you know we as a group that my father in.
So it was attack and the building that we were in, were shot by RPG if you know that, like a rocket. And the whole things, the whole building, like collapse, and we were under the building, so when the rocket came, for me, I didn’t see, you know, my sister was not able to listen, and the north Sudan rebel, capture the place and they take over the town.
And we were down until you know about four hours down and I cry. This was just the, I was explained, I didn’t know at that time I cry but my sister did explain to me what happened when I became ok after one week you know.
And you know four hours later I was crying and they hear our voice and my mother, in the prison that my mother were in, where the place that south Sudan rebels, were detained from them, because they know that they have hundreds of hundreds of south Sudanese are in the prison.
So they went there you know before they start to attack, they went there to make sure that they took control of the prison because if they knew that they were already been defeated, they would kill all the prisoners.
So they were controlled the prison, and when we, after four hours, as I said, people came and I was crying, so they hear my voice and they were digging around, digging down to get us out you know. And we were taken to the, it’s not as bitter compared to what I see that time, it was not as bitter.
So we were, you know, to be traded but they were using leafs of tree, to put into my eyes, you know, and seven days later I became ok and my father came you know.
And we stay in the place called Mangala that place and there were it was were control by the south Sudan army you know.
And in 1990, that’s where my whole region called Bol, were planned by Sudan government to be destroy all of it because is the place that have leaders in southern Sudan. It’s the place that have, that have people who have say we should have to, you know, to have our country. This is a country, our country.
So it was planned by even including Egypt, that after awhile we knew to go and bomb everyone in that place and make it, you know, as you know, a place of agriculture because we are living on the Nile of south Sudan.
So in 1990, they were attack all the Bol region you know and everyone was split out you know. So in about two weeks time that fighting was going on you know, there is no army you know. We call it army because is because it was a represent as army, but it’s not army, its army fighting against civilians in southern Sudan.
The army of north Sudan is fighting against the civilians. So if two of you or three of you gathering together, we call it army, but it’s not army you know.
So it was a fighting going on but what we do not have, what they call, you know, artillery to attack or guns or bullets, something like that we do not have you know, even long time ago, in 50 years ago, people they were coming by the guns and we go by spear you know.
So we do not call it army, but we represented as army because we are liberating ourselves.
So you know my father was a head of the, was that time, from order to be head of the army in that region, so and to think of us it was difficult for him to think of us because everyone was in that place was displaced and he even do not know where or whether we alive or not, you know.
So and we don’t, in southern Sudan there is not any communication, you know, nothing. It was very, very difficult so for him to find out where we are and also as so my mother at that time, the place became very dangerous and people are fleeing, fleeing out from the region and the region where control.
So in that time there was like soldiers you know the army, of the southern Sudan were coming in order to just, to make sure you know that they are fighting so that the civilians will have little bit of chance to escape so and my mother used to stand asking for my father’s name. (mumbles something maybe not in English/incoherently) And all the soldiers are like oh he’s not here, he’s not here and because my mother went to find out and whatever, you know. So we were moving as a people together you know, all the ferns, all the you know, regions, we were moving together. It is, for me, it is a thing that I will never forget in my life in that time that the war is so big to everyone and let everyone leave the place. They take our cow then we had an animal live in southern Sudan people used to have a cows. People, people cut the bait, people fishing on the Nile, people you know doing you know an African thing that are very minimal things but people were very happy. So they came, when they coming, they come to, they come to control everything like that so that everyone will know how long have food. So if I calculated how many people die by hunger, if I calculated how many people die by disease, if I calculated how many people died drown in the river Nile, if I calculated how many people will have been eaten by animals you know because people were just scattered in the jungle you know.
Third Ten Minutes
So we move, people were, this is something that in my mind that I cannot imagine and I cannot make sure now that these things were happening to human beings you know. Because people were moving and being shut, you know, like the animals. Where I am in I was in I saw a woman next to my mother. There was a bullet coming, you know, and she was shot down like this. And I was looking at her like this and my mother turned, you know, closed my eyes and turned me away you know.
And in 1991, we came to a very very different region, you know, we left our region and came to a very very different region called Nangala.
So I forgot to tell you, my father at that time, were switch with us. He was heading to go to Pobantz, the enemy, and we were, you know, going to the what they call the Hikyatori region.
And you know, and he have no idea at that time that we are alive, especially me you know. So people do not have it… but he has a passion, that he has to fight, and he has to do his will you know because maybe in two generations or three generation or four generation of South Sudan were die in persecution.
You were been ordered to accept religion, Islamic religions, or you will be killed or you were supposed to leave or you will be killed.
Your wife who is beautiful will be taken, and if you refuse, you will be killed. So in this generation we living in with this kind of thing.
So when in 1983 that I was telling you that I was studying in 1983, it’s a time that people gathering together in Southern Sudan and said no matter what will take for us to fight, we have to fight and that’s a war that’s taking place almost 21 years.
And you know, they say 3 million and a half die, but for me, I do not believe.
This is for the UN. UN wants to come after 5 years to count only the bones and they report it as 3 million and a half.
And do you know how many people were drown in the ground at night, do you know how many people were eating as I said before? Nobody knows them, so we were expecting more of that number.
So I will go back to the… So when we were all on the road, we you know, we came to the place called Nangala and that the place we switch with my father. My father went back to fight and he went to the Nangala.
And that place was very very dangerous because Duba, where I was born, was controlled by North Sudan. Torit, was the only place, Toris is a town, if you look at a map, Toris is a town in the Afro-Nile, I mean, in the Equatorial Region, it’s just a very small town. And Nangala also.
So, when we came to the Nangala they know it, that people, the refugees all the different race, came are in Nangala. So we were attack day by day, night by night, by airplane, bomb, bombarded.
Also by shelling, they shelling us you know. In that place, we also, they also kill people, number of people, more than hundreds and fifty people, in three days just shelling. And we have no option, to move to Torit, because there was a landmine, from Nangala to Torit, you cannot go.
And also they had been ambushing all the place, the people. Nearly one million were on the road going somewhere, nobody know just to get where its safe. And they are coming and they are here, and they are here, because they plan to finish everyone.
That’s a ___ that I been face. So when the, when the man called Jungara that I told you is my uncle was a leader of the Sudan, Sudanese People Liberation Army and also Sudanese Liberation Movement, he decided to take, to send the vehicle with the full army to came and take the landmine and also take people from Nangala, take, maybe just few thousand.
And there were just the three car I’m telling you is like a lower_______, the very old model, I don’t see it here in Israel. You know they planning, it was his plan to do that, you know, to just take a few number.
So and they succeeded. So they came to take the landmine out and they came with the fighting you know. They have to come and fight and take them out and then take the place. And they reached Torit. When they reached Torit, they, my mother went to the place and my mother _____ herself. I’m a wife of Mr. Marquez and I’m here with children.
And I do need to save, if you don’t want me to go with children, then please take these children and take them to Torit you know. And one of the captain was choked and cried and he said to my mother, you know he said, good that people, people who are fighting, their family are suffering in the midst of people.
And he told my mother that to go to, to call out because we don’t have any, there’s no banks, there’s no banks. So we were in court and to go to the car and when we were in the car, everyone were tried to jump to the car you know even that time people dying that time because everyone want to be safe you know.
And I was talk to the we call it Proncess, Pronceit, I was talk to the Pronceit and because it just like two here, driver here, and you know another here [laughs]. It’s a lowery- it’s a big car. So you know, and we spent two days you know driving all along because it’s very, very near but people have to go, army have to go ahead and make sure there is no ambush and to call to camp.
And we came to the Torit where my mother get a radio to talk to my father and she said, you know, Gabriel it’s ok and you know and everyone is ok. And my mothe.. uh my father said I’m in the war and I do not know when we will come back and you know, and he told my mother Go with the group you know, with the people that are going.
And you know we do not have a help you know, so we came to Torit, we stayed in Torit almost you know 2 years, or 3 years, something like that. So you know, and I became you know, 16 years old and I became a little bit place was peaceful, but we had, we had been bomb by the airplane but it not compare to what happened before.
So you know and you know I was told, I was told myself that I, I have to be trained you know, to the army, and you know because that’s what I felt. You know and I was trained, you know, to the army training, you know, not that much, but it was just, how to shoot a gun and all the things you know. So I, that time, do not have something in my mind that I will be captured by, by North Sudan and to be put in the, in the prison you know.
And after, after those years, my father was promoted to be the head of, the head of the intelligence you know, service, in South Sudan, and you know we were secure and all the things.
So one year later, you know, the army base that I was in, were captured also by the Sudan government and we were all been taken to the prisons.
It’s a lot to tell about that prison that we were in, because we were put. First of all, they touch, they were touching us and beating us, they beat us. For me, I didn’t tell myself. Because if I use my father name or my uncle name, in a minute, I will be kill. And what I told to people, every friend that I have, I told them, please, do not show anyone that who I am. And me, I would be speaking as your tongue, I will lead you, you know.
And people can see that you know. So we were six guys, very very same age. So when we came, they beat us, they beat us, and they told. Even I was asked where my father is, and they didn’t know that I’m, you know I’m his son.
I was asked “where Yungran is” and I, they didn’t know that he’s my uncle you know. So when after we been beaten, in 6 o’clock, we were dropped into the very big hill, like, and that hill have a snake inside, that snake used to come out you know during the nighttime.
Before two days before we came, that snake eat like two people, dead, dead you know.
And we were put in that, that hill. And in about one am in the morning, the snake start to come out. And I hear it you know. There was a lot of mosquito were, you know, were down with us, and I hear the sound of like “sssss”.
And I said to myself, if I told to the guys what happened, everyone will get up and start run, and when we run, the snake will eat all of us like this you know. So I decided to keep quiet.
So one guy, his name Dane, he was my good friend you know. He was very very good friend of me you know. You know, he feel the snake and he want to, he want to jump.
The snake hit him. Two minute later he was gone you know.
We cry, we cry for them to come to help us, no one.
We have no option to go up and you know. So I told the guys you know, to move, just a little bit. You know we have a hill like this, so we have to climb, climb ourselves in order snake will never hit your leg. It was very very difficult. So we stayed there with the snake until 5 am in the morning, the snake went back to the his place.
In the morning they came, you know, they took the body, they tell us you’re going to finish like this if you’re not going to tell us or whatever, you know. We tell them, we kno…. I was telling them that, for me, you you have to kill us you know, _____ because we know that this is not our ends, this is not the, this is not the beginning of you been killing us, the people here in this land and this is not a end.
So even though when you kill this, all of us, this is not a big number for our people. But make sure we will going to have our ride no matter how long people will die, even one man will be standing here one day.
And you know they slap me, and they put us back to the you know…, and they were washing the clothes, the washing clothes, you know.
And the dead water they were washing clothes, they dropped on us. All the time, they do it all the time.
So I you know, and I was very very strong, I was very strong. One day I didn’t plea like, I know I will be scared for dying you know. I almost said, for me.. it’s ok. People are dying, people are still you know, moving on with their life so you know. I’m not important you know, even they kill me, you know.
So the guys told me to ____ what to do but I told them please, we don’t have any choice we can make. Let’s wait until they will finish us. Because the way we don’t have something that we will achieve for you know.
So and they, they, one guy appears you know he said, we should tell them about you. That will make different. And I said, yea you sure, and he said yea and he said ok. So we stay there in one hour there was a captain came to see all of us.
And we were put one by one to be investigated. So the one guy said, he asked me in front of the people, he said ‘will you introduce yourself’ and I said to myself ‘this man maybe, this, God gave him to help us, so I said yes I will introduce myself’. I introduced myself, I said ‘my name is Gabriel Kwalmakez’ you know, and the guy was like,
you sure’____. And I said ‘yes’ and he said ‘where we, where the army find you’. And I said in ‘in Gulu’. And there was a town called Gulu that we were friend. And he said ok.
You know we were put out and next morning, we were put, we were tied like this and put into a helicopter to be took to the Costey. There is a town called Coste you know.
To, you know to be, to be transfer to Khartoum, which is a capital of Sudan. So you know, we were tied and put, and they said because they knew that soon they get me, then, it’s good.
That’s what, that’s what they did always to the people of southern Sudan, to find the man that will have been, family connection. They take you and when you in the capital, they will force you, they will force you to accept religions, which is Islamic religion and in the meantime to go and convince your people.
No matter, you on the TV or on the radio or whatever you know.
So we were give like bread you know and they took us to Cosi and from Cosi that where we were put in _______, to be, to be departed to Khartoum. That where I was been put in prison for five years and three months, you know, under the water.
So that’s a story, you know, and that is you know.. there is a lot of thing, that is a lot of thing that sometime when I, when I talk about them, I feel, I feel not good, for three days or four days you know.
Because… I’m telling you, people are still suffering until now in Southern Sudan you know. And people, people are still suffering until now. People do not have freedom. People do not dream about freedom in South Sudan, until now.
So we saying to ourselves that we are safe in Israel you know, and when we look back to our country, we still, still have the thing that our people are still in the, in the _____.
Minute 40
We are safe here in Israel, nobody will come and kill us. But we do need, we also have some difficulties. I will begin with the UN.
You know when I was in Egypt, for me, to get, to get to renew my document, almost take months and months to get it, to renew the document of the UN, I’m not talking about the Egypt citizenship. So that’s Egypt, we forgot about Egypt.
So when we came here, you know we, first of all we considered Israel as a place that when we came here, we said, first of all we said to God, thank God that we made it to be here Israel. Because Israel people are the people who will understand our case more than any one, more than any Arab country. We will never been, also be frustrating like in Egypt. We said it to ourselves until today.
But you know, last year, my, my document was expired… for me to go to UN, it was waiting, waiting, more than 120 people were waiting outside, and I was in the midst of them, you know to renew the document.
But I fell, 7 days going around and coming around. Finally I get it. I talk to UN, I said. We don’t want to force anyone, we don’t want to force the Israel government, we do not want to force the UN, we do not want to force anyone.
But if you saying that you are the one who want to help refugees, I myself, Gabriel, want to see you have helping us. We are not asking you for the money, we are not asking you to rent a place for us.
But when we come to get the document, you should have to, to renew it for us very quickly. Because the reason why we have a jobs, we work in the hotel. And if you absent 7 days and you come back, they will tell you go. So when you go from the hotel, leave the hotel, or leave whatever you do, first of all, you have no place to live, you have no guarantee, you know, you have no guarantee. You can be go from work and you come home, you take your bag and you go because you have no money to rent the place.
We work, it’s not because we come to get the money. We work, because we want to make sure that we ourselves, we will help ourselves before someone help us. So like me, I’m working now, to rent the house, to rent the place like this, to sleep, and have my food, and have, if I want to buy a clothes, I buy by myself. Not asking Israel government. But we are asking the Israel government to consider us as a refugees, to consider us as a people who have problems. If Israel government is saying that we are having peace in Sudan, it’s not.
Two months ago there was fighting in south Sudan, in a place called Abiye. And when ___ was dead, also still no one wants to report it. And I will show you the evidence of it.
So what we are wanted to tell people here now, is that we are refugees, UN has to work as a UN, you know we were killed outside of, in front of the office in Cairo, Egypt. And UN were not saying anything.
For me, from my point of view, south Sudan has to have supposed to, in 2011 is supposed to have referendum. For if south Sudan have to be separate, or to be united with Sudan. For me, my point of view, is we, Israel, we are begging Israel to allow us to stay here until 2011. To see, because we believe the war is not over, people are still murder, people are still killing.
Even those who came to Israel here, we have everyone of us, the 2,600 Sudanese in Israel. Every each one of us, if you back today to Sudan, you will be questioned, you will be punish. Because they consider the north Sudan consider, and I want to be serious about this, because the north Sudan is considering Israel as its traitor and enemy state.
But south Sudan, where we came from, we have no problem with the uh with the Israel. So every each one of us when we go back we will be killed by the Sudan government, because they said why you go to Israel. its just a point, only ___. We came to Israel you go back to Arab country, you dead. For me to go to Egypt today, I’m dead. Syria, I’m dead. Any Arab country, and it’s still Israel wants to deport us. And is still Israel is do not want to consider us as a people with a problem. We do have a problem, we do have a problem.
And no one, no one, you know, will say I will stay in Israel forever. No one. And what we are asking for Israel people, for Israel government is help.
Yes help. We have, we need help. Even though we are not asking for you for anything. We also need help. And also I want to, you know, sometime I feel, when I was last week, I was at the UN, I supposed to get Israeli visa. That’s the system that they get now. And I get the appointment on date, for, hours. I went on there for hours. Was long process.
And I stay there, from 730 in the morning until 530 evening, while no one talked to me. And after a while they came and they said, we are sorry go back to UN to get another appointment. South Sudan people that fallen people that were about to shout. I said them, no you should not shout. You should not shout.
You should not shout. So are we facing same problem, like in Egypt. We are asking ourselves. Is Israel not the country that we are thinking about? Or is it is it like um we are not the people, you know. Is it like if we go back to Sudan, for example like me, if I go back to south Sudan, my home land. I will be staying there telling each one of them that Israel was the country who was helping us. Especially now, you know they allowed us to stay this time.
I will be telling to every family, every single friend, I will be telling these. In the future, south Sudan also will love Israel. As many countries love Israel, many countries hate Israel. That’s like us, we love Israel, you know.
So what I want you to tell to, you know, Israel people, you know, is you. If you been a lot, maybe past generation of Israel were been a lot of difficulties. That’s the same thing we been in southern Sudan. We been tried to be finish, and no one knows about it.
Minute 50
And that’s why, myself, Gabriel, is speaking today telling you that the history exactly what of it. Because when people do not know about it. For us, you know, its its different history, you know. When you expect people die, when you see people dead, when you see people tried to be finished all of them. And in the end, no one wants to talk about it. Even the few survivors are not considered, you know, So what I, uh, we do not have, uh, a way uh, a way to force people. But we are telling people the story, we are telling people the situation.
Even now, south Sudan, is not own by its own country. We will go back there and defend it. And in that defending, and in the defending of southern Sudan will not come peacefully, the Arab will never let us do that. And that’s why we believe that war will happen again.
Also, if war will happen, if Israel will deported us today, and we just dropped in southern.. eh or in Sudan and wars to broke again, where are you gonna go? Are you going to take a gun to fight? Are you trained, who trained you? You do not know, and there is no time to training you.
So why, why do we need to be put back to the place that we know that we are going to die. You know. And that is the question that we are asking the Israel government same day, same time, you know.
So the situation here, uh, for me personally, need to, people need to talk about it. People need to, you know, people need to talk about it. And people need to know the situation. We are not a migrant workers. We are, we have the capacity to achieve that we are not a migrant workers, you know.
You cannot, you cannot be able to survive in Egypt, and also across the dangerous border, just to come and make the money, no. no my dear, no. no, no.
Interview Conducted in Fall 2009
You know I born in Southern Sudan uh in the city called Duba which is a city of southern Sudan where uh I born there and we have a culture in southern Sudan, that uh every boy after 5 years have to be take to the to the village and show to be show
If you be born in the city you have to be taken to the village and try to train you some culture things and uh my father was in the army, you know, he was joining the army in may 1983 and so when he was in the army we stay where we stay in the city I have 2 sisters the elder one and the younger one
So I born in Duba and in about 5 years later I was tooken to the village called Mar that where we have almost 600, 600-700 people uh family together know each other and I was tooken there to be feed only to drink milk and all kind of these things
So I spend one year there and I uh then they took be back to the city you know
And In about 1985 they, the government of Sudan that we were fighting against, against the south Sudan, they destroy the city that I am in you know
And everyone went away, and all of my family went away. Uh my father born in a very big family, they are like 5 guys and they all were killed by the north Sudan and my father and my uncle were the two left, you know. And the they the city was attack by the government and we moved out to the back to the village that we uh we supposed to we coming from because Dubai? Is another place of the southern Sudan it is a city
So uh when we were there my father was in the army, so we were there, um with relatives, farms, you know who were taking care of us especially me as a young boy.
So uh when I was about to be 7 or 7 ½ year old, they the government army came to the village, the same village where we are called Mar and they came and they attacked the village and they came with the order that uh they are looking for the family of the people who are joining the army of the southern Sudan and uh nobody were able to tell where we are and 3 of us and my mother so uh they went back and then they in about a week they came again and they gathering everyone to you know to the under, we we have a big tree it is still alive to today, that tree
And they gathered everyone there and they asking for my family, which is my mother, and ……. My family, we called
And they ask for Makess, names, and where is his wife, but no one at the time take uh want to speak or to raise his hand up or her hand up to uh to show where we are because people know soon they will uh soon they will know about where we are they will kill us you know and
So people refused to tell the name and they go and take one of the guy and shot uh into you know his head
And I were there, that time, I seen this happening
They also ask again to show where my mother is and nobody were willing to tell where we are
So also they took another guy and shot
And they ask again and nobody want to show so they took 2 womans and there is was my woman sitting uh next to my mother and she she just feel that uh you know she just feel that people were going to be kill all because of one family and she decided to come up to to show where we are
And they shot one of the woman that they took and uh you know they took us they took us you know into the town called Mangala where we find a lot of people from that they were being tooken from the village sand uh especially children to be uh you know converted, to be forced to be uh Muslims you know and uh to use the women that they took as their uh you know their wife or something like that
So we went there and we were put in a very uh special place and they announce it, uh you know that they attack village of Mar and they they kill uh uh us they kill us and they kill many people
And they announce it and people know uh they become aware that we were already here you know
So people they doing it because uh they don’t want people to know that we are in the town, uh that they you know and we didn’t know that they announced it so they that uh that we already dead
So you know my mother was tooken to the prison, uh to her own prison
And we were put into the house of the uh the you know lieutenant commander in the army of north Sudan so we that where were uh we were uh force to you know to …especially me I was force and beat and force to you know to accept Islam and they were uh using me to uh they put their white uh uh dress uh you know and put the cover that they wear in Sudan and we were you know persecutioned and you know we uh I myself was tortured you know in order to accept as a child
but you know I found 700 children from south Sudan who are already been you know were already been uh forced uh to the Islam uh early and uh they were already you know many of them had been dead you know
and what they do usually when the children dead or the people you know uh dead they put them you know to the Nile, they drop them into the Nile and
so uh we stay there in about 8 months I didn’t see my mother, my mother didn’t see us you know
so one day my mother ask for uh for where we are because she felt that you know maybe we are not alive anymore so uh you know and she was told that we are okay and we are safe and we are uh in the in the in its called the men it was called the Youseff-Moustafa and she was informed that were are alive and next day she ask for permission to go and see us you know and the next day she was given permission to go see us
Second Ten Minutes
So she came one day she came towards the Sunday morning and she came and you know they opened the door that we you know and for me I was I didn’t die because I have, I have a strongness in my heart and I believe that those people they came you know to kill everyone from south Sudan and make it their homeland and I understand they came to kill my uncle they kill my friends they kill many people in southern Sudan.
But for me I was taking it very easily that even though if I die it does not matter. They kill leader, they kill people like that so I was having a strong heart because of that. So my mother came you know and she came and she saw me and you know she cried and I told her my mother do not cry.
For me, I have been strong it’s just because of you and she came and she hugged me and she hugged my two sisters and you know she pray and she was asking me you know to pray, it was her about the situation.
And she they took her back to the prison, and two days later they they, the town that we were in were attacked by the south Sudan rebels, you know we as a group that my father in.
So it was attack and the building that we were in, were shot by RPG if you know that, like a rocket. And the whole things, the whole building, like collapse, and we were under the building, so when the rocket came, for me, I didn’t see, you know, my sister was not able to listen, and the north Sudan rebel, capture the place and they take over the town.
And we were down until you know about four hours down and I cry. This was just the, I was explained, I didn’t know at that time I cry but my sister did explain to me what happened when I became ok after one week you know.
And you know four hours later I was crying and they hear our voice and my mother, in the prison that my mother were in, where the place that south Sudan rebels, were detained from them, because they know that they have hundreds of hundreds of south Sudanese are in the prison.
So they went there you know before they start to attack, they went there to make sure that they took control of the prison because if they knew that they were already been defeated, they would kill all the prisoners.
So they were controlled the prison, and when we, after four hours, as I said, people came and I was crying, so they hear my voice and they were digging around, digging down to get us out you know. And we were taken to the, it’s not as bitter compared to what I see that time, it was not as bitter.
So we were, you know, to be traded but they were using leafs of tree, to put into my eyes, you know, and seven days later I became ok and my father came you know.
And we stay in the place called Mangala that place and there were it was were control by the south Sudan army you know.
And in 1990, that’s where my whole region called Bol, were planned by Sudan government to be destroy all of it because is the place that have leaders in southern Sudan. It’s the place that have, that have people who have say we should have to, you know, to have our country. This is a country, our country.
So it was planned by even including Egypt, that after awhile we knew to go and bomb everyone in that place and make it, you know, as you know, a place of agriculture because we are living on the Nile of south Sudan.
So in 1990, they were attack all the Bol region you know and everyone was split out you know. So in about two weeks time that fighting was going on you know, there is no army you know. We call it army because is because it was a represent as army, but it’s not army, its army fighting against civilians in southern Sudan.
The army of north Sudan is fighting against the civilians. So if two of you or three of you gathering together, we call it army, but it’s not army you know.
So it was a fighting going on but what we do not have, what they call, you know, artillery to attack or guns or bullets, something like that we do not have you know, even long time ago, in 50 years ago, people they were coming by the guns and we go by spear you know.
So we do not call it army, but we represented as army because we are liberating ourselves.
So you know my father was a head of the, was that time, from order to be head of the army in that region, so and to think of us it was difficult for him to think of us because everyone was in that place was displaced and he even do not know where or whether we alive or not, you know.
So and we don’t, in southern Sudan there is not any communication, you know, nothing. It was very, very difficult so for him to find out where we are and also as so my mother at that time, the place became very dangerous and people are fleeing, fleeing out from the region and the region where control.
So in that time there was like soldiers you know the army, of the southern Sudan were coming in order to just, to make sure you know that they are fighting so that the civilians will have little bit of chance to escape so and my mother used to stand asking for my father’s name. (mumbles something maybe not in English/incoherently) And all the soldiers are like oh he’s not here, he’s not here and because my mother went to find out and whatever, you know. So we were moving as a people together you know, all the ferns, all the you know, regions, we were moving together. It is, for me, it is a thing that I will never forget in my life in that time that the war is so big to everyone and let everyone leave the place. They take our cow then we had an animal live in southern Sudan people used to have a cows. People, people cut the bait, people fishing on the Nile, people you know doing you know an African thing that are very minimal things but people were very happy. So they came, when they coming, they come to, they come to control everything like that so that everyone will know how long have food. So if I calculated how many people die by hunger, if I calculated how many people die by disease, if I calculated how many people died drown in the river Nile, if I calculated how many people will have been eaten by animals you know because people were just scattered in the jungle you know.
Third Ten Minutes
So we move, people were, this is something that in my mind that I cannot imagine and I cannot make sure now that these things were happening to human beings you know. Because people were moving and being shut, you know, like the animals. Where I am in I was in I saw a woman next to my mother. There was a bullet coming, you know, and she was shot down like this. And I was looking at her like this and my mother turned, you know, closed my eyes and turned me away you know.
And in 1991, we came to a very very different region, you know, we left our region and came to a very very different region called Nangala.
So I forgot to tell you, my father at that time, were switch with us. He was heading to go to Pobantz, the enemy, and we were, you know, going to the what they call the Hikyatori region.
And you know, and he have no idea at that time that we are alive, especially me you know. So people do not have it… but he has a passion, that he has to fight, and he has to do his will you know because maybe in two generations or three generation or four generation of South Sudan were die in persecution.
You were been ordered to accept religion, Islamic religions, or you will be killed or you were supposed to leave or you will be killed.
Your wife who is beautiful will be taken, and if you refuse, you will be killed. So in this generation we living in with this kind of thing.
So when in 1983 that I was telling you that I was studying in 1983, it’s a time that people gathering together in Southern Sudan and said no matter what will take for us to fight, we have to fight and that’s a war that’s taking place almost 21 years.
And you know, they say 3 million and a half die, but for me, I do not believe.
This is for the UN. UN wants to come after 5 years to count only the bones and they report it as 3 million and a half.
And do you know how many people were drown in the ground at night, do you know how many people were eating as I said before? Nobody knows them, so we were expecting more of that number.
So I will go back to the… So when we were all on the road, we you know, we came to the place called Nangala and that the place we switch with my father. My father went back to fight and he went to the Nangala.
And that place was very very dangerous because Duba, where I was born, was controlled by North Sudan. Torit, was the only place, Toris is a town, if you look at a map, Toris is a town in the Afro-Nile, I mean, in the Equatorial Region, it’s just a very small town. And Nangala also.
So, when we came to the Nangala they know it, that people, the refugees all the different race, came are in Nangala. So we were attack day by day, night by night, by airplane, bomb, bombarded.
Also by shelling, they shelling us you know. In that place, we also, they also kill people, number of people, more than hundreds and fifty people, in three days just shelling. And we have no option, to move to Torit, because there was a landmine, from Nangala to Torit, you cannot go.
And also they had been ambushing all the place, the people. Nearly one million were on the road going somewhere, nobody know just to get where its safe. And they are coming and they are here, and they are here, because they plan to finish everyone.
That’s a ___ that I been face. So when the, when the man called Jungara that I told you is my uncle was a leader of the Sudan, Sudanese People Liberation Army and also Sudanese Liberation Movement, he decided to take, to send the vehicle with the full army to came and take the landmine and also take people from Nangala, take, maybe just few thousand.
And there were just the three car I’m telling you is like a lower_______, the very old model, I don’t see it here in Israel. You know they planning, it was his plan to do that, you know, to just take a few number.
So and they succeeded. So they came to take the landmine out and they came with the fighting you know. They have to come and fight and take them out and then take the place. And they reached Torit. When they reached Torit, they, my mother went to the place and my mother _____ herself. I’m a wife of Mr. Marquez and I’m here with children.
And I do need to save, if you don’t want me to go with children, then please take these children and take them to Torit you know. And one of the captain was choked and cried and he said to my mother, you know he said, good that people, people who are fighting, their family are suffering in the midst of people.
And he told my mother that to go to, to call out because we don’t have any, there’s no banks, there’s no banks. So we were in court and to go to the car and when we were in the car, everyone were tried to jump to the car you know even that time people dying that time because everyone want to be safe you know.
And I was talk to the we call it Proncess, Pronceit, I was talk to the Pronceit and because it just like two here, driver here, and you know another here [laughs]. It’s a lowery- it’s a big car. So you know, and we spent two days you know driving all along because it’s very, very near but people have to go, army have to go ahead and make sure there is no ambush and to call to camp.
And we came to the Torit where my mother get a radio to talk to my father and she said, you know, Gabriel it’s ok and you know and everyone is ok. And my mothe.. uh my father said I’m in the war and I do not know when we will come back and you know, and he told my mother Go with the group you know, with the people that are going.
And you know we do not have a help you know, so we came to Torit, we stayed in Torit almost you know 2 years, or 3 years, something like that. So you know, and I became you know, 16 years old and I became a little bit place was peaceful, but we had, we had been bomb by the airplane but it not compare to what happened before.
So you know and you know I was told, I was told myself that I, I have to be trained you know, to the army, and you know because that’s what I felt. You know and I was trained, you know, to the army training, you know, not that much, but it was just, how to shoot a gun and all the things you know. So I, that time, do not have something in my mind that I will be captured by, by North Sudan and to be put in the, in the prison you know.
And after, after those years, my father was promoted to be the head of, the head of the intelligence you know, service, in South Sudan, and you know we were secure and all the things.
So one year later, you know, the army base that I was in, were captured also by the Sudan government and we were all been taken to the prisons.
It’s a lot to tell about that prison that we were in, because we were put. First of all, they touch, they were touching us and beating us, they beat us. For me, I didn’t tell myself. Because if I use my father name or my uncle name, in a minute, I will be kill. And what I told to people, every friend that I have, I told them, please, do not show anyone that who I am. And me, I would be speaking as your tongue, I will lead you, you know.
And people can see that you know. So we were six guys, very very same age. So when we came, they beat us, they beat us, and they told. Even I was asked where my father is, and they didn’t know that I’m, you know I’m his son.
I was asked “where Yungran is” and I, they didn’t know that he’s my uncle you know. So when after we been beaten, in 6 o’clock, we were dropped into the very big hill, like, and that hill have a snake inside, that snake used to come out you know during the nighttime.
Before two days before we came, that snake eat like two people, dead, dead you know.
And we were put in that, that hill. And in about one am in the morning, the snake start to come out. And I hear it you know. There was a lot of mosquito were, you know, were down with us, and I hear the sound of like “sssss”.
And I said to myself, if I told to the guys what happened, everyone will get up and start run, and when we run, the snake will eat all of us like this you know. So I decided to keep quiet.
So one guy, his name Dane, he was my good friend you know. He was very very good friend of me you know. You know, he feel the snake and he want to, he want to jump.
The snake hit him. Two minute later he was gone you know.
We cry, we cry for them to come to help us, no one.
We have no option to go up and you know. So I told the guys you know, to move, just a little bit. You know we have a hill like this, so we have to climb, climb ourselves in order snake will never hit your leg. It was very very difficult. So we stayed there with the snake until 5 am in the morning, the snake went back to the his place.
In the morning they came, you know, they took the body, they tell us you’re going to finish like this if you’re not going to tell us or whatever, you know. We tell them, we kno…. I was telling them that, for me, you you have to kill us you know, _____ because we know that this is not our ends, this is not the, this is not the beginning of you been killing us, the people here in this land and this is not a end.
So even though when you kill this, all of us, this is not a big number for our people. But make sure we will going to have our ride no matter how long people will die, even one man will be standing here one day.
And you know they slap me, and they put us back to the you know…, and they were washing the clothes, the washing clothes, you know.
And the dead water they were washing clothes, they dropped on us. All the time, they do it all the time.
So I you know, and I was very very strong, I was very strong. One day I didn’t plea like, I know I will be scared for dying you know. I almost said, for me.. it’s ok. People are dying, people are still you know, moving on with their life so you know. I’m not important you know, even they kill me, you know.
So the guys told me to ____ what to do but I told them please, we don’t have any choice we can make. Let’s wait until they will finish us. Because the way we don’t have something that we will achieve for you know.
So and they, they, one guy appears you know he said, we should tell them about you. That will make different. And I said, yea you sure, and he said yea and he said ok. So we stay there in one hour there was a captain came to see all of us.
And we were put one by one to be investigated. So the one guy said, he asked me in front of the people, he said ‘will you introduce yourself’ and I said to myself ‘this man maybe, this, God gave him to help us, so I said yes I will introduce myself’. I introduced myself, I said ‘my name is Gabriel Kwalmakez’ you know, and the guy was like,
you sure’____. And I said ‘yes’ and he said ‘where we, where the army find you’. And I said in ‘in Gulu’. And there was a town called Gulu that we were friend. And he said ok.
You know we were put out and next morning, we were put, we were tied like this and put into a helicopter to be took to the Costey. There is a town called Coste you know.
To, you know to be, to be transfer to Khartoum, which is a capital of Sudan. So you know, we were tied and put, and they said because they knew that soon they get me, then, it’s good.
That’s what, that’s what they did always to the people of southern Sudan, to find the man that will have been, family connection. They take you and when you in the capital, they will force you, they will force you to accept religions, which is Islamic religion and in the meantime to go and convince your people.
No matter, you on the TV or on the radio or whatever you know.
So we were give like bread you know and they took us to Cosi and from Cosi that where we were put in _______, to be, to be departed to Khartoum. That where I was been put in prison for five years and three months, you know, under the water.
So that’s a story, you know, and that is you know.. there is a lot of thing, that is a lot of thing that sometime when I, when I talk about them, I feel, I feel not good, for three days or four days you know.
Because… I’m telling you, people are still suffering until now in Southern Sudan you know. And people, people are still suffering until now. People do not have freedom. People do not dream about freedom in South Sudan, until now.
So we saying to ourselves that we are safe in Israel you know, and when we look back to our country, we still, still have the thing that our people are still in the, in the _____.
Minute 40
We are safe here in Israel, nobody will come and kill us. But we do need, we also have some difficulties. I will begin with the UN.
You know when I was in Egypt, for me, to get, to get to renew my document, almost take months and months to get it, to renew the document of the UN, I’m not talking about the Egypt citizenship. So that’s Egypt, we forgot about Egypt.
So when we came here, you know we, first of all we considered Israel as a place that when we came here, we said, first of all we said to God, thank God that we made it to be here Israel. Because Israel people are the people who will understand our case more than any one, more than any Arab country. We will never been, also be frustrating like in Egypt. We said it to ourselves until today.
But you know, last year, my, my document was expired… for me to go to UN, it was waiting, waiting, more than 120 people were waiting outside, and I was in the midst of them, you know to renew the document.
But I fell, 7 days going around and coming around. Finally I get it. I talk to UN, I said. We don’t want to force anyone, we don’t want to force the Israel government, we do not want to force the UN, we do not want to force anyone.
But if you saying that you are the one who want to help refugees, I myself, Gabriel, want to see you have helping us. We are not asking you for the money, we are not asking you to rent a place for us.
But when we come to get the document, you should have to, to renew it for us very quickly. Because the reason why we have a jobs, we work in the hotel. And if you absent 7 days and you come back, they will tell you go. So when you go from the hotel, leave the hotel, or leave whatever you do, first of all, you have no place to live, you have no guarantee, you know, you have no guarantee. You can be go from work and you come home, you take your bag and you go because you have no money to rent the place.
We work, it’s not because we come to get the money. We work, because we want to make sure that we ourselves, we will help ourselves before someone help us. So like me, I’m working now, to rent the house, to rent the place like this, to sleep, and have my food, and have, if I want to buy a clothes, I buy by myself. Not asking Israel government. But we are asking the Israel government to consider us as a refugees, to consider us as a people who have problems. If Israel government is saying that we are having peace in Sudan, it’s not.
Two months ago there was fighting in south Sudan, in a place called Abiye. And when ___ was dead, also still no one wants to report it. And I will show you the evidence of it.
So what we are wanted to tell people here now, is that we are refugees, UN has to work as a UN, you know we were killed outside of, in front of the office in Cairo, Egypt. And UN were not saying anything.
For me, from my point of view, south Sudan has to have supposed to, in 2011 is supposed to have referendum. For if south Sudan have to be separate, or to be united with Sudan. For me, my point of view, is we, Israel, we are begging Israel to allow us to stay here until 2011. To see, because we believe the war is not over, people are still murder, people are still killing.
Even those who came to Israel here, we have everyone of us, the 2,600 Sudanese in Israel. Every each one of us, if you back today to Sudan, you will be questioned, you will be punish. Because they consider the north Sudan consider, and I want to be serious about this, because the north Sudan is considering Israel as its traitor and enemy state.
But south Sudan, where we came from, we have no problem with the uh with the Israel. So every each one of us when we go back we will be killed by the Sudan government, because they said why you go to Israel. its just a point, only ___. We came to Israel you go back to Arab country, you dead. For me to go to Egypt today, I’m dead. Syria, I’m dead. Any Arab country, and it’s still Israel wants to deport us. And is still Israel is do not want to consider us as a people with a problem. We do have a problem, we do have a problem.
And no one, no one, you know, will say I will stay in Israel forever. No one. And what we are asking for Israel people, for Israel government is help.
Yes help. We have, we need help. Even though we are not asking for you for anything. We also need help. And also I want to, you know, sometime I feel, when I was last week, I was at the UN, I supposed to get Israeli visa. That’s the system that they get now. And I get the appointment on date, for, hours. I went on there for hours. Was long process.
And I stay there, from 730 in the morning until 530 evening, while no one talked to me. And after a while they came and they said, we are sorry go back to UN to get another appointment. South Sudan people that fallen people that were about to shout. I said them, no you should not shout. You should not shout.
You should not shout. So are we facing same problem, like in Egypt. We are asking ourselves. Is Israel not the country that we are thinking about? Or is it is it like um we are not the people, you know. Is it like if we go back to Sudan, for example like me, if I go back to south Sudan, my home land. I will be staying there telling each one of them that Israel was the country who was helping us. Especially now, you know they allowed us to stay this time.
I will be telling to every family, every single friend, I will be telling these. In the future, south Sudan also will love Israel. As many countries love Israel, many countries hate Israel. That’s like us, we love Israel, you know.
So what I want you to tell to, you know, Israel people, you know, is you. If you been a lot, maybe past generation of Israel were been a lot of difficulties. That’s the same thing we been in southern Sudan. We been tried to be finish, and no one knows about it.
Minute 50
And that’s why, myself, Gabriel, is speaking today telling you that the history exactly what of it. Because when people do not know about it. For us, you know, its its different history, you know. When you expect people die, when you see people dead, when you see people tried to be finished all of them. And in the end, no one wants to talk about it. Even the few survivors are not considered, you know, So what I, uh, we do not have, uh, a way uh, a way to force people. But we are telling people the story, we are telling people the situation.
Even now, south Sudan, is not own by its own country. We will go back there and defend it. And in that defending, and in the defending of southern Sudan will not come peacefully, the Arab will never let us do that. And that’s why we believe that war will happen again.
Also, if war will happen, if Israel will deported us today, and we just dropped in southern.. eh or in Sudan and wars to broke again, where are you gonna go? Are you going to take a gun to fight? Are you trained, who trained you? You do not know, and there is no time to training you.
So why, why do we need to be put back to the place that we know that we are going to die. You know. And that is the question that we are asking the Israel government same day, same time, you know.
So the situation here, uh, for me personally, need to, people need to talk about it. People need to, you know, people need to talk about it. And people need to know the situation. We are not a migrant workers. We are, we have the capacity to achieve that we are not a migrant workers, you know.
You cannot, you cannot be able to survive in Egypt, and also across the dangerous border, just to come and make the money, no. no my dear, no. no, no.
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